🎙️ In this episode of Colivers Club, we sit down with Tobias Hug, a seasoned digital nomad and the ultimate coliving enthusiast.

Tobias has spent over 15 years exploring the world, from Southeast Asia to Morocco, and has visited some of the most iconic coliving spaces like SunDesk and Chateau. Now, he’s beginning to settle down, and we’re diving into his journey—from his first coliving experience in Morocco to becoming a partner at SunDesk.

Tobias shares his insights on what makes a perfect skillshare session, the challenges of transitioning from a nomadic lifestyle to a more rooted life, and his thoughts on the evolving coliving landscape. We also explore how deep connections are formed in coliving spaces, his experiences in the world of cryptocurrencies, and the potential future of digital nomadism. Whether you’re a seasoned nomad or just curious about the lifestyle, Tobias offers valuable perspectives that you won’t want to miss. 🎧✨

 

César: Hello everybody, this is another episode of Colivers Club. I’m your host, César Alberca. This podcast is powered by Mapmelon. Here today, we have Tobias Hug. He’s a minimalist, productivity nerd, and global nomad. He’s into yoga, calisthenics, and Muay Thai, which we’ll get into. Tobias, how are you? Tobias: I’m very well, especially now that I see you a little bit of flirting at the beginning. No, I’m very well. Thank you. César: Nice. We were talking before backstage to see what questions to ask you, and we came up with some very good ones. Tobias: No pressure at all now that I already know the questions. I better have a good response. César: How do you envision the perfect skillshare session? Tobias: How I envision the perfect skillshare? César: Yeah. Does it happen over lunch? Does it need to have a PowerPoint presentation? Tobias: Okay. That’s very biased towards my personal preferences. What I don’t usually like is an endless monologue and presentation. Like at university, I was never a big advocate for just sitting there and consuming for an hour. I like learning by doing, which is why, when I did my own skillshares, I always tried to make them as interactive as possible and have real-life examples. I don’t like just having one hour of theory; I prefer practical examples with specific takeaways for the audience. Learning by doing, very pragmatic and practical. The people in the skillshare should have a clear idea of what to do next, like next steps. It should also be somewhat customized to their needs. Asking at the beginning, or even before it starts, what questions the audience has, what their problems are, and what their goals are helps tailor the session to their interests, give them practical takeaways, and maybe an outlook on how it could look in the future. Does that make sense? César: Yeah, totally. Normally, the skillshares you’ve done in the past, how long were they? Tobias: Never longer than one hour because people just doze off. I would say between 20 minutes to an hour. It’s often, especially at Sun and Co., during a lunch break. People need to go back to work or have other plans after, so there’s a natural limit. César: It’s more light, right? Because eating with a PowerPoint… Tobias: Yeah, exactly. Have some food in between. It’s very casual, not formal, and really kept to the timing. César: What I love about skillshares is that we, as humans, are interested in different things. The cool thing is that someone with a totally different perspective offers a skillshare about something you wouldn’t normally be interested in, but you go because you don’t want to miss out. Then you learn something new you wouldn’t have otherwise. Tobias: That’s true. It’s not only in an area where you already operate, like business, but sometimes something completely different that you haven’t thought of. The last one I remember in this respect was at Cloud Citadel in Briançon. There was a guy creating a board game from scratch, and he shared his journey. I didn’t think about creating my own game before, but it was interesting to have insights into this journey. César: Nice. I love board games, so I would have liked to attend that presentation. Nice. You traveled a lot through Southeast Asia during your digital nomad lifestyle, right? Tobias: Yeah, in the early years, before I discovered colivings. I spent four to five years in Southeast Asia, primarily Indonesia. Not Bali, just one or two months in Bali. Mostly two years in Jakarta, which I can’t recommend. And then the classics like Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines, etc. I spent a lot of time there. César: How did you transition from solo traveling to colivings? When did you start going to colivings? Tobias: I stumbled upon it. I wanted to explore Morocco, as it’s always advertised as a beautiful country, and I had never been. So I went to Morocco and had internet issues. This was like nine or ten years ago. In Marrakesh, there was no coworking space or café like that. I urgently needed good and reliable internet. I heard about one space in Taghazout that had fiber internet. It turned out to be a coliving. It was my first coliving experience. I had no idea about the concept before and was a bit overwhelmed initially, but I learned to love it. Ever since then, I spent most of my time in coliving spaces. It was just an accident. César: What do you consider a coliving or what does coliving mean for you? Tobias: That’s a good question and not an easy one because many spaces and brands misuse the label coliving. It’s a broad term and can mean different experiences. For me, it’s easier to start with what it’s not. It’s not an apartment building. Some big brands purchase a large house in the middle of Lisbon with different floors, each with its own door, living room, and kitchen, and one common coworking space that closes at a certain time. That’s not coliving for me. Coliving means having a very active community management and significant shared spaces. Not just coworking but also one shared kitchen, living room, where people meet and connect organically. It’s not different apartments with their own units of kitchens and living rooms. It’s one common space where people meet and then go to their private unit to sleep. Community management is much more active. There are family meetings, shared breakfasts, dinners, etc. César: Like even the figure of a host? Tobias: Yes, the hosts are very actively involved. There is a role called host, not just house manager. It’s a community manager in the end. César: There was someone who said that for a coliving to be considered coliving, the owner needs to know most of the names of the people there, right? Tobias: I think I saw that in your very first Colivers episode because I watched it last night. They were saying they know every single name of every guest who’s ever been there. To a degree, it’s correct. Now, I feel like the early coliving spaces owners slowly get out because it’s overwhelming after five years of nonstop being in the coliving with thousands of guests. It’s valid to have other managers take care of the community. The managers know every single name. The person on location is very involved. César: Nice. You mentioned Morocco. You’ve been there more times, right? Tobias: Yeah, it’s the place that comes closest to the definition of home, whatever that is. I’ve been there for three to five months every year for nine years. My first coliving was in Morocco, so I’m very emotionally attached. César: Nice. And you even have a partnership with SunDesk coliving. Tobias: Now I do. Yes. I co-own a beach house with Magda, who is the manager and owner of SunDesk. Technically, I’m not a manager or owner of SunDesk, just a partner because I co-own a beach house that is also used for guests who want more privacy or be closer to the beach and have their own kitchen. César: Yeah, this tends to happen when there’s a coliving space in a remote city. People start buying properties or moving near it. Right? Tobias: Yeah, that’s true. I’ve witnessed that in different locations. People build a connection with the place. It’s super nice in Morocco. It’s very seasonal in terms of guests. If you go in a specific period, you can be sure you know half the people because they come every year. Many now have an apartment outside the coliving or have purchased something. It’s almost like a neighborhood you already know on top of the coliving community. César: This also happened in Tertulia in Italy. Super international folks moving into the middle of nowhere, and the Italian neighbors were like, “What’s happening?” Tobias: I can imagine. Yeah. César: How did the partnership start? Was that something you were looking into before it happened or it just happened? Tobias: It was quite quick in the end. I know Magda was looking for property for a long time. Taghazout is very limited in terms of property offer because of protected argan trees, so the village cannot expand. There’s a limited offer of available buildings, many of which are very old. Eventually, something was available, and Magda and I decided to do it together. César: Nice. After all this traveling, now you are setting a base in Marseille. How do you adapt from being a nomad for so long to a regular lifestyle? Tobias: It’s hard. The traveling part was never that important to me after the first five years in Asia. I traveled to be with my family and friends. It’s more about finding a community in a big city without a coliving. I’m struggling a bit to adapt. It takes time and effort. I feel like I need to create my own solution. I created a group for remote workers in Marseille and a board game night group for every Thursday. I’m trying to build different groups for different interests and see what sticks, to build a network and learn what the city and people need. Based on that, I’ll decide if I should create a pop-up coliving or a permanent community space. I’m still in the exploration phase. It’s hard to adapt, but I need to create my own solution. César: Nice. So maybe in the future you open your own coliving? Tobias: Maybe. Inshallah, as the Moroccans would say. Let’s see. César: You mentioned you traveled a lot to build relationships with people. Have you had the feeling where you meet people for a week, and it’s so deep and intense that it feels like you’ve known them forever? While with your usual friends in your home country, it’s nice but different. How do you feel about this? Tobias: Yeah, I completely agree. Not only with friends in my home country but also in city life. In a city, you meet a couple of times a week for a few hours. In colivings, it’s 24/7. You have breakfast, lunch, dinner, work, and do activities together. It’s very condensed in a short amount of time. You also share experiences in a new country, making it very intense in quality and quantity. It’s a fast way to make deep relationships and have deep talks. After three days, you can have a super deep conversation, which would never happen in a month here. César: People who travel tend to be open-minded. You find yourself in a new country in a vulnerable position, and out of vulnerability, you find deeper connections. Tobias: Yes, openness and not knowing the location or people draw them out of their comfort zone. They’re dependent on meeting others. It’s a different mindset. César: When I went to Alpiness last year, we talked about cryptocurrencies. I heard you’re also interested in these topics. Can you tell us about it? Tobias: I was extremely fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. My second year at SunDesk in Morocco, there was a Bitcoin millionaire who invested early and was very rich. He brainwashed the entire community. They were nonstop talking about cryptocurrency. At that time, Ethereum was the next big thing after Bitcoin. I was fortunate to learn from them how to invest in cryptocurrency. I made an early investment, which was very profitable over time. I’m highly interested in that. César: So we can do the headline already for the show: Go to Coliving, you’ll be rich. Tobias: Yeah, in this case, it’s literally true. But it’s just one of many things. You’re also rich in emotions, life experiences, and personal relationships. It’s more important than money. César: True, but people would rather cry over a Ferrari. Tobias: Fair. But meeting the right people, being in a community, getting the right input, and being open to it is just one example of many things I’ve learned over the years. César: This podcast happened because of this as well. I went to Switzerland, met Ramón and Sole, talked, and liked the idea of doing a podcast about colivings. It happened. Boom, here you are. Tobias: Yeah, it can go quickly. César: Yeah, and I feel like the first time I went to a coliving, even though I was working the whole time and maybe even putting in more hours than usual, I came back home more energized and motivated. I wonder why that is. I think it’s because you break out of your routine, your habits, and everything is new and exciting. But it also has the downside of potentially being overwhelming. How do you find balance? Tobias: Good question. I feel like there are usually two types of people: those who prefer to be alone and meet people when they want, and those who, like me, love having people around by default and take alone time when needed. I require very little alone time, maybe one day on the weekend or a couple of evenings per week. But you’re right, if you don’t take alone time, your energy can drop because it’s just too much stimuli. You need to learn to balance it and not be afraid of missing out on activities. The same activity will likely pop up again. César: Yeah, you just need to learn to say no. I remember having this feeling of FOMO, fear of missing out. I wanted to do everything: go to the winery, surf, and more. For a week or two, you can do this, but not long term. Tobias: That’s the beautiful thing about location independence. If there’s something you want to do, you don’t need to rush. You can always come back. It’s different from vacations where your time is limited, and you have to cram everything in. Being location-independent means you have the freedom to come back whenever you want. César: Yeah, on holidays, you might want to disconnect and relax. In a coliving, while working, you can have a different vibe. Tobias: True. It’s interesting because when you first start this lifestyle, you might go to the extreme, trying to do too much. Over time, you learn to dial it down to a sustainable level. César: People who move to colivings for longer periods tend to be better at balancing. They know how to say no better than newcomers. Tobias: Fair point. There’s a bit of a difference. People who stay longer in colivings still participate in the lifestyle but might not join every activity. César: Do you think colivings should have a maximum amount of time people can stay before they need to leave? Tobias: Interesting question. Usually, the discussion is about minimum stays. For maximum stays, it depends. It might be challenging if someone stays too long and doesn’t mix well with newcomers. It can create cliques, and they might not be interested in making new friends. César: Yeah, I’ve felt that. Sometimes people who stay too long don’t mix well with newcomers. They have their group and might not be open to new relationships. Tobias: That’s true. I’ve never met someone who stayed non-stop in one coliving, but it could be unfortunate for other guests if there’s someone they don’t get along with who’s always there. Colivings usually have waves of people, with new groups overlapping. Staying for three months was my usual sweet spot. After a few waves, it can get exhausting to keep introducing yourself and starting from zero. César: Yeah, meeting amazing people and then finding out they’re leaving tomorrow is always heartbreaking. Adding them on Mapmelon helps coordinate future travel plans. Tobias: Exactly, that’s why I love Mapmelon. It helps keep track of when friends might be at the same coliving. It’s about deepening relationships, not just quantity but quality. César: Do you think colivings should have a set of questions that are off-limits, like “Where are you from?” or “What do you do?” to encourage more meaningful conversations? Tobias: It would be an interesting experiment. It’s hard to control because people might ask those questions outside the house. Some colivings have family meetings with different questions to open perspectives. A rule set with forbidden questions could definitely be interesting to try. César: Yeah. I think we tend to do this because we want to put people in boxes. “Oh, Tobias is from Germany. He knows this, he is this and that.” And now you understand Tobias, right? But it’s so much more than that. Tobias: Even though I must admit, even I ask those questions as well. It’s like, yeah, and as you say, immediately, “Ah, okay. From the U.S., from the U.K.” It helps to structure it in my mind, but it’s still at the surface. Other questions would be preferable for sure. César: Like, for example, which question would you like to ask people? Tobias: Oh, what are you proud of having achieved in the last year? Or I’m often asked, what was your highlight of the day? But I think the best question is the secondary question, simply “why.” Like, you know, you can’t ask, “Where are you from?” and then “Why?” because that’s a bit pointless. But you can ask, “What was your highlight?” and then, “Why was it your highlight?” “Why do you find it interesting?” “Why are you passionate about that?” “Why are you doing what you’re doing?” The secondary question goes deeper and I wish it was asked more often, not just in colivings but in general. César: Yeah, true. It’s very interesting. I feel like organically this happens. After a while of traveling to colivings, you realize those initial questions become pointless. Tobias: Yeah, exactly. César: At some point, I like to try and guess. That’s a game I have. I guess what they do. Normally, I guess developer because I’m almost always right. 80 percent of the digital nomads I’ve met are developers, project managers, or designers. Tobias: There are also a lot of UX designers and coaches. It’s getting more diverse these days, but it’s still mostly digital. I would love to see more artists. César: I met a psychologist once, which was super interesting, traveling around the world and offering sessions. Tobias: Yeah, for sure. César: I wonder in the future, what will be the most common profession among digital nomads? Tobias: Just GPT prompting. Oh, prompt engineer. Yeah, I don’t know. We’ll see. César: With AI taking over, I’ve been to several skillshares about AI lately. I remember one given by Ness. Marta, an architect we interviewed, liked the idea of applying AI to interior design. They formed a startup together. Super cool. Tobias: That’s super nice. Collaborations often come from these shared times together. César: Any projects we should know about? Tobias: No, it’s been a while. Quite a few years ago. When I was attending and giving a lot of skillshares, there were a couple of collaborations, but nothing to promote now. César: Sneak promotion is the best promotion. Tobias: True, but I don’t want to focus on too many things. People will get confused. César: Okay, so we’ll just remember the Marseille remote workers group, which will be linked in the description. Tobias: Yes, nice. César: I’m also interested in the idea of creating diffuse communities. People moving to houses near the colivings. Francesco Baldini from Tertulia coined this term. To have this diffuse community, colivings use tools like Slack, WhatsApp groups, or Facebook Messenger. Tobias: Every coliving has tried at least two or three different platforms. There’s no optimized one; every platform has its pros and cons. But it’s true, these tools help reach a wider community. César: Maybe there’s an opportunity for someone to create an app for communities oriented towards colivings. And I’ll require 10% of the net gains. Tobias: Yes, exactly. César: It was born out of this episode. Tobias: Yes, exactly. César: Super important idea. The execution doesn’t matter. Tobias: That’s true. César: It has been a pleasure, Tobias. Tobias: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I’m very humbled after seeing the first episode with Alpiness Coliving. I wondered what value I could add, but here I am, happily answering questions. So thanks for having me. César: Totally. Thank you. This has been another episode of Colivers Club. Thank you for being here and sharing. Like and share. Anything you want. Okay, see you then. Bye.